Mar 162010

I know a fair few men, and I wonder if a woman carrying out these suggestions would appeal to them:

Be shy. Men, especially alphas, love shy women. (Betas, because of low self confidence, tend to misinterpret female shyness as disinterest.) There is probably an evolutionary reason for this. Perhaps a shy woman subcommunicates that she will be less likely to cheat in a relationship. Smile and look down at your feet when he approaches you. Learn to blush on demand. Or apply makeup so it always looks like you’re blushing…

Play a little hard to get. Did you eye flirt with him and sweep a lock of hair behind your ear when he entered the office? Good, you have been using the black castor oil for a reason. Now, when he approaches to say hi you smile warmly, issue a couple of pleasantries, and BE THE FIRST to walk away from the conversation, telling him you need to get back to work. You’ve gotta give the man some running room to chase down his prey. It’s in our blood.

Shy != retiring. In your high-powered career field filled with ambitious douchebags greater beta males you are likely to meet men who enjoy a bit of snappy badinage with a smart chick. If you discuss weighty topics, and feel a need to express disagreement, do so in a way that displays your sharpness but also strokes his ego. Always preface your disagreement by saying “I can see your point…”. Let him win 90% of the time, even when you are right. On those disagreements where you allow yourself to win, be sure they are inconsequential points that will not offend his pride of phallus.

Is this right?

  22 Responses to “Good advice, or bad?”

  1. Is this right?


  2. It’d probably work.

  3. She sounds adorable. Do you have her number? 😉

    Oddly, girl game hit on a similar theme earlier this week.

    • How very bizarre, these guides on courtship ritual (for so they be). I’m sure some people find them helpful, but to me they seem remarkably old-fashioned: ‘behave in this way, and you’ll catch a man/woman (delete as appropriate).’ But what sort of man/woman does one end up with, then, especially if both parties have been following these recommendations? We all hope for someone who sees virtues in our virtues and is not too bothered by our faults. How are any of us to find such a person if everybody is telling each other the same lies?

      • It’s an interesting way of looking at it. Essentially there are two phases to any dating strategy: 1. meeting and getting to know folk and 2. divining which of those are awesome.

        There is a wealth of advice out there about 1.; you can use it to put up a facade, to hide the “real you,” or you can use it to accentuate those character traits of yours that are most attractive. You wouldn’t tell a guy working off the beer gut down at the gym to “stop telling the same lies;” extend the same logic to emotional and mental attractiveness.

        There is unfortunately a dearth of advice about 2. It’s commonly assumed to be common sense. It’s not. The most successful LTRs I’ve seen (my parents excepted >_>) aren’t people picking eachother up in a club, but something that started out as a friendship then became something more; they both knew what they were in for.

        • It’s interesting you say that, because the LTRs I’ve been in (including my marriage, obvi) started out as dating relationships with people I barely knew beforehand. I didn’t exactly meet them in clubs, but I certainly couldn’t characterise them as friendships that grew into something more.

          I reckon most of the problems with dating are a result of, as you say, people not knowing what they want in a partner. I was having this discussion with a friend the other day and asked her what she’d prefer, and her answers were: somebody’s who is tidy, who is professionally successful, who will help with house and children. But that could be anybody! I said to her – what do you want from another person’s character, personality, worldview? She didn’t know, and confessed she’d never given it much thought. After my first couple of boyfriends, that was all I thought about. Within the general framework of ‘not a loafer,’ everything else was incidental.

          • You drew an interesting distinction there; I saw it as people going “oh my, someone’s interested! let’s see how far we can take this” as opposed to thinking: “is this person really the kind of person I want to spend the rest of my life with?”

            As you pointed out, there are a good few people who don’t ask that second question because they don’t know the kind of person they want to spend the rest of their life with. I personally find that terrifying >_>

            The other oft-missed effect in dating strategy is “selection bias” — if you only ever date the guys who come up to you in clubs, you’re only ever going to date the kind of guys who go up to girls in clubs, and all you’re going to have in common is that you both like clubbing.

          • I always find the ‘is this person really the kind of person I could spend the rest of my life with?’ question to be an incredibly easy one – simply because the answer is ‘yes’ until it becomes ‘no.’ That point of view was always much more pleasurable for me than the common one, which is that (if they ask themselves) the answer is ‘no’ until it becomes ‘yes.’

            People who are relatively self-aware usually have a fair idea of the sort of thing they couldn’t possibly tolerate in a mate – such that anyone is a potential mate until they display one of these deal-killing attributes. Unfortunately most people feel the need to reserve judgment until they are sure a person is ‘right’ for them, leading to all kinds of problems and miscommunications in the courtship process.

            I’m not sure if I’m explaining this particularly well, except that the vast majority of people I know appear to need a potential partner to ‘prove’ their suitability, when in fact it would be a hell of a lot simpler to assume a potential partner is suitable until they show themselves not to be. Since you can never really know whether a person is suitable, or will remain so, it makes much more sense to focus on weeding out the obviously unsuitable.

            The thing is, so many men and women have such low opinions of themselves that they’re afraid to reject the unsuitable for fear that they may never find anyone better matched to their desires. And the converse to this problem – that some people reject or stall quite excellent matches in the hope of finding someone even better. And, as you say, selection bias.

            But I find that the real, real problem in dating is not those people who don’t know what they want, but those people who have too narrow an idea of what they want; in their close-mindedness, they refuse to embrace the possibilities of meeting and communing with interesting and valuable people. The best dating strategy in the world is always to ask out whomever you feel inclined to ask out, and always to say yes when people ask you. Even if it goes nowhere, it’s an avenue explored and an experience to learn from.

  4. Roissy on sex is like Terry Kelly on politics (but with slightly better spelling) – he may be right but, if he is, it is entirely accidental. Remember, this is all coming from the fundamental angle that Roissy and his male readers are the alpha gods and no woman can help but fall at their feet in subservient lust …

  5. I briefly thought this might be part of some kind of inventive update of Ars Am 3

  6. Load of old cock, that is.

    Shy isn’t always best; socially inadequate, borderline aspergers cases like me don’t understand nuance and context and prefer confident women saying exactly what they think so as to not leave too much for our fevered imaginations. You don’t want that.

    And I hate it when people preface their reply to my ill-informed rants with “I see what you’re saying” or similar. Don’t placate me, tell me why I’m wrong or I’ll shout louder.

    • I must say, you didn’t come across as borderline-Asperger’s when I met you, but maybe that’s because of all the beer. 😉

      Anyway, I see what you’re saying. Some men actually don’t realise when they’re being flirted with. DK claims he’s never cognisant of it, though I would hesitate to ascribe this to a failure to understand nuance, context, etc. Possibly it’s simply because he’s never encountered a woman who isn’t flirting with him. I tell you, I have to beat them off with a cricket bat, the brazen hussies.

      • Some men actually don’t realise when they’re being flirted with. DK claims he’s never cognisant of it, though I would hesitate to ascribe this to a failure to understand nuance, context, etc.

        I went through most of my twenties like that. It took friends to tell me, FFS!

  7. She’s full of bad advice…

    “DON’T give blowjobs before you have had sex with him. An early, pre-sex blowjob says one thing to a man — slut. And sluts don’t impress men as marriage prospects.”

    Women with a healthy sexual appetite are under-rated as potential wives. What does she think men might want in a long term relationship? A horny girl or a frigid girl?

    • I think Roissy is actually a ‘he’ – and he does seem to give rather contradictory prescriptions to both men and women. Ladies aren’t supposed to give blow jobs before sex, but men are supposed to try their hardest to get ladies to do exactly that. Ladies aren’t supposed to sleep with more than two or three men (ever, not per year), but men are supposed to try their hardest to sleep with as many hot women as possible. Frankly I’m surprised any sex ever happens at all!

  8. It would work, as long as she didn’t get caught. But if she was caught, the bloke would feel humiliated and it would be over.

  9. I think it would work pretty well actually.

    The chance would be a fine thing, as they say.

  10. ” Let him win 90% of the time, even when you are right.”

    Bollocks to that

    That makes me incredibly angry

    It’s insulting to “Let him win” because it presumes he’s an idiot who can’t, and the “even when you are right” Well, fucking no, you can’t be sure you’re right until you’ve heard the other persons point of view and got to the heart of the matter.

    So that statement alone is sexist and doubly insulting, because it recommends a) Being a manipulative bitch and b) Being a manipulative bitch with a superiority complex.

    “Men, especially alphas, love shy women. (Betas, because of low self confidence, tend to misinterpret female shyness as disinterest.) ”

    Shy = Boring

    The author of this piece thinks women should be nothing more than self-interested walking tape recorders

    What a massive cunt.

    “Play a little hard to get.”

    Yeah? Yeah? Did you ever consider that men don’t like self-important egotists who play hard to get, when they aren’t bloody worth the effort because their ego revolves around how well they follow poorly written, barkingly insane pseudo-psychotherapy blog posts written by a guy who’s blogger tagline (“Where pretty lies perish.”) would embarrass even the most hardcore self-loathing teenager?

    That article is an exercise in telling stupid bratty women what they want to hear – Ie, It’s a good thing to carry on being stupid and bratty.

  11. I think Roissy is talking about what he wants in a woman. I think he probably wants shy, unargumentative women because, when he is unfaithful to them they are less likely to take him to task. He has the Catholic madonna/whore syndrome, he wrote a while ago that when he’s with a woman he wants to feel like he’s ascending to heaven or descending into hell.

    That said I think that Roissy’s advice to men is often quite good.

    • Do men really want what Roissy wants, though?

      • Well, I don’t personally and I don’t think men in general do. But, it doesn’t matter what most men think, they don’t get to choose. Only Alpha males can be picky about these things. I don’t know if Roissy is right about their preferences.

        To some extent I agree with Roissy about arguing. Men don’t like women who argue with them. But, that’s not because men necessarily feel the need to win. It’s more because many women don’t play fair. Rather than arguing the point they resort to a form of ad hom, they try to shame those they disagree with. They make it personal, as do many men. Something people on the internet often forget is that standards of debate are much lower in the fleshspace than they are on the internet these days. So, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for either gender to be wary of argumentative people. But it’s not really a big problem.

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