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	<title>Comments on: CRU file: response strategy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bellagerens.com/2009/11/27/cru-file-response-strategy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bellagerens.com/2009/11/27/cru-file-response-strategy/</link>
	<description>inde vides agilem bella gerentem</description>
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		<title>By: RobinL</title>
		<link>http://bellagerens.com/2009/11/27/cru-file-response-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-1015</link>
		<dc:creator>RobinL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bellagerens.com/?p=590#comment-1015</guid>
		<description>Capital D, though. Shows respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Capital D, though. Shows respect.</p>
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		<title>By: bellagerens</title>
		<link>http://bellagerens.com/2009/11/27/cru-file-response-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-1014</link>
		<dc:creator>bellagerens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bellagerens.com/?p=590#comment-1014</guid>
		<description>&#039;Deniers&#039; is rather an inflammatory term, don&#039;t you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Deniers&#8217; is rather an inflammatory term, don&#8217;t you think?</p>
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		<title>By: greenfyre</title>
		<link>http://bellagerens.com/2009/11/27/cru-file-response-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-1013</link>
		<dc:creator>greenfyre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 13:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bellagerens.com/?p=590#comment-1013</guid>
		<description>Except there isn&#039;t anything actually wrong with the code either, 
&lt;a href=&quot;http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/2009/11/30/crude-hack-meme-and-the-smoking-gun/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;CRUde hack, meme and the “smoking” gun &lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://allegationaudit.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mining The Source Code&lt;/a&gt;
just Deniers swearing they see something that isn&#039;t there ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Except there isn&#8217;t anything actually wrong with the code either,<br />
<a href="http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/2009/11/30/crude-hack-meme-and-the-smoking-gun/" rel="nofollow">CRUde hack, meme and the “smoking” gun </a><br />
<a href="http://allegationaudit.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Mining The Source Code</a><br />
just Deniers swearing they see something that isn&#8217;t there &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: bellagerens</title>
		<link>http://bellagerens.com/2009/11/27/cru-file-response-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-1011</link>
		<dc:creator>bellagerens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:05:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bellagerens.com/?p=590#comment-1011</guid>
		<description>Bishop Hill - I don&#039;t think that&#039;s what Greenfyre is asking for. His/her challenge is for sceptics to demonstrate how the leaked information affects the conclusions of the published literature and in what way. As in:

&#039;The file entitled lies_damned_lies_README.txt contains information that clearly contradicts paragraph 3, page 17 in XYZ et al., 2004, which negates that article&#039;s entire conclusions. Paragraph 3 states that abc = abc. X himself, in the aforementioned file, proves that abc =/= abc, but rather that abc = 123.&#039;

I, too, want to know if sceptics can do this. If it can be done, it should be done, as RobinL points out above. Then if anyone demands sneeringly, &#039;Oh yeah? Show me how this disproves the science,&#039; such a demand can easily be met.

On the other hand, I get what you&#039;re saying entirely. The climate change issue seems to read more like a religious debate than a scientific one!

&lt;b&gt;Fanatic:&lt;/b&gt; God exists. My literature says so. Many millions of people accept its truth. There is a consensus; the science is settled. Why do you think there are no Godless holy books? Sure, there is no &#039;proof&#039; that God exists, but models of human belief show quite clearly that the probability is high. You cannot disprove my claim, or provide data that contradict its truth. Therefore my literature is authoritative.

&lt;b&gt;Atheist:&lt;/b&gt; God doesn&#039;t exist. Your literature is a tissue of lies written by gullible and selfish men.

&lt;b&gt;Fanatic:&lt;/b&gt; Not so. My literature was written by God.

&lt;b&gt;Atheist:&lt;/b&gt; How do you know?

&lt;b&gt;Fanatic:&lt;/b&gt; It says so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bishop Hill &#8211; I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s what Greenfyre is asking for. His/her challenge is for sceptics to demonstrate how the leaked information affects the conclusions of the published literature and in what way. As in:</p>
<p>&#8216;The file entitled lies_damned_lies_README.txt contains information that clearly contradicts paragraph 3, page 17 in XYZ et al., 2004, which negates that article&#8217;s entire conclusions. Paragraph 3 states that abc = abc. X himself, in the aforementioned file, proves that abc =/= abc, but rather that abc = 123.&#8217;</p>
<p>I, too, want to know if sceptics can do this. If it can be done, it should be done, as RobinL points out above. Then if anyone demands sneeringly, &#8216;Oh yeah? Show me how this disproves the science,&#8217; such a demand can easily be met.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I get what you&#8217;re saying entirely. The climate change issue seems to read more like a religious debate than a scientific one!</p>
<p><b>Fanatic:</b> God exists. My literature says so. Many millions of people accept its truth. There is a consensus; the science is settled. Why do you think there are no Godless holy books? Sure, there is no &#8216;proof&#8217; that God exists, but models of human belief show quite clearly that the probability is high. You cannot disprove my claim, or provide data that contradict its truth. Therefore my literature is authoritative.</p>
<p><b>Atheist:</b> God doesn&#8217;t exist. Your literature is a tissue of lies written by gullible and selfish men.</p>
<p><b>Fanatic:</b> Not so. My literature was written by God.</p>
<p><b>Atheist:</b> How do you know?</p>
<p><b>Fanatic:</b> It says so.</p>
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		<title>By: Bishop Hill</title>
		<link>http://bellagerens.com/2009/11/27/cru-file-response-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-1010</link>
		<dc:creator>Bishop Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bellagerens.com/?p=590#comment-1010</guid>
		<description>Bella

That is asking us to prove a negative. The biggest issue with Climategate is that we now know that there was a systematic attempt to close scientific journals to sceptic papers. How many papers, how good they were, or what effect they would have had on our understanding of the climate we will never know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bella</p>
<p>That is asking us to prove a negative. The biggest issue with Climategate is that we now know that there was a systematic attempt to close scientific journals to sceptic papers. How many papers, how good they were, or what effect they would have had on our understanding of the climate we will never know.</p>
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		<title>By: RobinL</title>
		<link>http://bellagerens.com/2009/11/27/cru-file-response-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-1009</link>
		<dc:creator>RobinL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bellagerens.com/?p=590#comment-1009</guid>
		<description>Nail on head Bella. This is the only issue.

In terms of citations in scientific papers dealing with climate change, Hadley (Met Office) and CRU (UEA), known as HadCRU when conjoined, between them far outnumber any other source in the world for the last ten years (18,000 approx). They have been instrumental in setting up the parameters for the IPCC, etc., etc.

http://sciencewatch.com/ana/fea/09novdecFea/
(Scroll down for table).

Until it&#039;s all collated and cross-referenced, and an easily understood short version is produced, we are wasting time discussing: too easy to dismiss, a la Monblot.

Fun, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nail on head Bella. This is the only issue.</p>
<p>In terms of citations in scientific papers dealing with climate change, Hadley (Met Office) and CRU (UEA), known as HadCRU when conjoined, between them far outnumber any other source in the world for the last ten years (18,000 approx). They have been instrumental in setting up the parameters for the IPCC, etc., etc.</p>
<p><a href="http://sciencewatch.com/ana/fea/09novdecFea/" rel="nofollow">http://sciencewatch.com/ana/fea/09novdecFea/</a><br />
(Scroll down for table).</p>
<p>Until it&#8217;s all collated and cross-referenced, and an easily understood short version is produced, we are wasting time discussing: too easy to dismiss, a la Monblot.</p>
<p>Fun, though.</p>
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		<title>By: The Great Simpleton</title>
		<link>http://bellagerens.com/2009/11/27/cru-file-response-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-1007</link>
		<dc:creator>The Great Simpleton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 22:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bellagerens.com/?p=590#comment-1007</guid>
		<description>Note how he (they) interchange skeptic and denier? Skeptics are not deniers they just need to be convinced and that can only be done by transparency or scientific method: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/24/the-people-vs-the-cru-freedom-of-information-my-okole%E2%80%A6/

The emails don&#039;t show a conspiracy and there may well be innocent answers to all the questions that skeptics raise, but they cast enough doubt on the scientific method as to need that clarification.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note how he (they) interchange skeptic and denier? Skeptics are not deniers they just need to be convinced and that can only be done by transparency or scientific method: <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/24/the-people-vs-the-cru-freedom-of-information-my-okole%E2%80%A6/" rel="nofollow">http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/24/the-people-vs-the-cru-freedom-of-information-my-okole%E2%80%A6/</a></p>
<p>The emails don&#8217;t show a conspiracy and there may well be innocent answers to all the questions that skeptics raise, but they cast enough doubt on the scientific method as to need that clarification.</p>
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		<title>By: bellagerens</title>
		<link>http://bellagerens.com/2009/11/27/cru-file-response-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-1006</link>
		<dc:creator>bellagerens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 07:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bellagerens.com/?p=590#comment-1006</guid>
		<description>So what you&#039;re saying is, those questions deliberately set up anyone who tries to answer them to fail?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what you&#8217;re saying is, those questions deliberately set up anyone who tries to answer them to fail?</p>
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		<title>By: sconzey</title>
		<link>http://bellagerens.com/2009/11/27/cru-file-response-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-1002</link>
		<dc:creator>sconzey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 03:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bellagerens.com/?p=590#comment-1002</guid>
		<description>Well that&#039;s the thing, dear Bella; we don&#039;t actually know.

Because unlike EVERY OTHER SCIENTIFIC DISCIPLINE, climatologists don&#039;t publish their methods or source data. God forbid a denialist attempt to replicate their results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well that&#8217;s the thing, dear Bella; we don&#8217;t actually know.</p>
<p>Because unlike EVERY OTHER SCIENTIFIC DISCIPLINE, climatologists don&#8217;t publish their methods or source data. God forbid a denialist attempt to replicate their results.</p>
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